After our last match in Stalingrad Cup we noticed a problem with the rules, and we did a few tests on official servers yesterday to verify that our suppositions were right and to clearly spot the problem.
A little explanation: on Pavlov House map (but other map have similar problematic), the capzones are "open", I mean that there is two capzones in the middle of the map, and both sides have to attack one and defend one at the round start. The schematic is not the usual "one side attack the map, other side have to defend".
During our match, our opponent clearly won the first round by capturing all capzones. Comes the second round where both teams finally did not capture more than one capzone. The server decided to give the second round point to our opponent.
We had explanation with TWIL staff after we opened a ticket because we did not understand why we lost this second round (we calculated with screenshots the team points and kill points, reinforcement tickets, and we were clearly better than our opponent on this second round). They explained how victory was calculated and confirmed our opponent won this map because both round have been used to calculate the second round winner. with the two rounds they had more capzones than us so they won. So we did not have to play the tie-break map, because final result was 3-1 and not 2-2 as we expected. OK, TWIL staff took the decision following the rules (did not find any mention on the rules on the website) and server setting "Use Captures For Tie Breaking", we accepted it, but we thought that the rule would have not work in the reverse situation (capturing only one capzone each side for first round, then our opponent capturing all capzone for second round)
We decided to test what happened in the reverse situation, we jumped on a TWIL server and we clearly saw that the rule applied during our match did not work in the reversed situation.
If for the first round only one capzone is captured each side at the round end nobody have the round point with a message ROUND TIED on screen, and a new 'first round' is started automatically without switching side, and both team have 0 round point. If only one capzone is captured each side, this can continue indefinitely.
So there are in conclusion a few problems:
- in the case an open capzone map have no clear winner on the first round (one side capturing more objectives for this round) the round restarts automatically, and this case can be repeated until one side capture more objectives for this round, then a second round will start after a switching side.
- in the case an open capzone map have no clear winner on the second round (one side capturing more objectives for this round), the first round result is used to decide who wins the second round. This is not acceptable because the first round result must not be used to decide the second round result (server setting "Use Captures For Tie Breaking").
- in both cases, different things happened and this is problematic because it can lead in an unfair side to start with, or strategic use of these different cases, and definitely two different results for the same thing (or even things I did not though about)
We need to clarify the rules and decide (new) rules for these cases in order to have for both rounds on a map two different results, because one round result must not have an impact on the other round for that same map (for example we used to restart the map for the second round in our clan wars before TWIL because one round is one round, we never calculated second round victory with the first round result). What is important is to have a round winner (as it is what we are looking for in clan match, a specific round winner) not a map winner (as on FFA servers).
- we need to find a way to decide of a winner in the case nobody capture more objective in a round on this kind of maps (for example tickets remaining, kill points, overall points, or other idea).
- we need to have two rounds - two results and not take first round result to decide second round result.
- the USE CAPTURE FOR TIE BREAKING server setting musn't be applied and this rule must be changed
- we need to make these changes in rules before ladders open, or accept to change these rules during ladders
I may have forgotten things I wanted to talk about but I think it is a good start to discuss this problem. Thanks for the one who read me and who will reply to this thread.
A little explanation: on Pavlov House map (but other map have similar problematic), the capzones are "open", I mean that there is two capzones in the middle of the map, and both sides have to attack one and defend one at the round start. The schematic is not the usual "one side attack the map, other side have to defend".
During our match, our opponent clearly won the first round by capturing all capzones. Comes the second round where both teams finally did not capture more than one capzone. The server decided to give the second round point to our opponent.
We had explanation with TWIL staff after we opened a ticket because we did not understand why we lost this second round (we calculated with screenshots the team points and kill points, reinforcement tickets, and we were clearly better than our opponent on this second round). They explained how victory was calculated and confirmed our opponent won this map because both round have been used to calculate the second round winner. with the two rounds they had more capzones than us so they won. So we did not have to play the tie-break map, because final result was 3-1 and not 2-2 as we expected. OK, TWIL staff took the decision following the rules (did not find any mention on the rules on the website) and server setting "Use Captures For Tie Breaking", we accepted it, but we thought that the rule would have not work in the reverse situation (capturing only one capzone each side for first round, then our opponent capturing all capzone for second round)
We decided to test what happened in the reverse situation, we jumped on a TWIL server and we clearly saw that the rule applied during our match did not work in the reversed situation.
If for the first round only one capzone is captured each side at the round end nobody have the round point with a message ROUND TIED on screen, and a new 'first round' is started automatically without switching side, and both team have 0 round point. If only one capzone is captured each side, this can continue indefinitely.
So there are in conclusion a few problems:
- in the case an open capzone map have no clear winner on the first round (one side capturing more objectives for this round) the round restarts automatically, and this case can be repeated until one side capture more objectives for this round, then a second round will start after a switching side.
- in the case an open capzone map have no clear winner on the second round (one side capturing more objectives for this round), the first round result is used to decide who wins the second round. This is not acceptable because the first round result must not be used to decide the second round result (server setting "Use Captures For Tie Breaking").
- in both cases, different things happened and this is problematic because it can lead in an unfair side to start with, or strategic use of these different cases, and definitely two different results for the same thing (or even things I did not though about)
We need to clarify the rules and decide (new) rules for these cases in order to have for both rounds on a map two different results, because one round result must not have an impact on the other round for that same map (for example we used to restart the map for the second round in our clan wars before TWIL because one round is one round, we never calculated second round victory with the first round result). What is important is to have a round winner (as it is what we are looking for in clan match, a specific round winner) not a map winner (as on FFA servers).
- we need to find a way to decide of a winner in the case nobody capture more objective in a round on this kind of maps (for example tickets remaining, kill points, overall points, or other idea).
- we need to have two rounds - two results and not take first round result to decide second round result.
- the USE CAPTURE FOR TIE BREAKING server setting musn't be applied and this rule must be changed
- we need to make these changes in rules before ladders open, or accept to change these rules during ladders
I may have forgotten things I wanted to talk about but I think it is a good start to discuss this problem. Thanks for the one who read me and who will reply to this thread.
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