First of all i want to say that i dont want to insult anyone or write something rude. I respect TWi's work and i understand that everybody makes mistakes. I just want to explain all ro2 weapons problems from historical accuracy point of view. Sorry for possible mistakes, i dont know english language perfectly.
i've heard that disbalance of RS is its " special feature " and its very good because japans and americans had absolutely different weapons.
Well its good for RS of course, but i dont understand why RO2 didnt get same thing. Germans and russians werent as different in weapons as americans and japans, but there was some difference anyway.
I'll write here 2 parts. 1 - about classic mode roles/weapons. 2 - about unlocks.
part1
1)G41 and SVT. They are balanced for 100% by popularity that is wrong absolutely. IRL the Germany produced about 145 000 G41s untill new G43; USSR produced 1,6 million SVT-40, over 1 million of them - before 22th june. So, on the Stalingrad battle time there was over 10 times more SVT than G41.
Same thing about scoped variants. There was about 50 000 scoped SVTs; sadly no information about scoped G41s ( number ). But its very obvious that scoped G41s were much more rare than scoped SVTs just because there was 11 times more SVT than G41 ( all variants ). Also i have never seen any photo of german sniper with scoped G41 ( but i ve seen several photos of german/finnish snipers with captured scoped SVT and even (!!!) scoped AVS-36) i am not talking about photo of this thing in Stalingrad. In RO2 "realism" mode scoped g41/svt are same unlocks for german/russian roles. In classic mode its even worse - ALL SNIPERS CAN GET SEMI AUTO. Its bad even for russians because scoped SVT was much more rare than mosin, for germans its just... well, describe by yourself the fact that every german sniper in Stalingrad battle can take scoped G41 with scope made in 1944.
2)MP-40 and PPSh-41. By different sources Germany produced about 1-2 mln mp40; USSR produced over 6 million PPSh for all the war. Both weapons' production was growing by the time and started approximately at the same time with difference about 1 year. Another SMGs were much more rare for both sides - USSR had about 80 000 PPD-40 before the war + 40 000 PPD-40 produced in Leningrad during the war+ some unknown number of produced PPD in other places during the war, then old PPD34-48 that was even less popular.
Germans had about 8000 MP28, 10-20K emp35 and mp34 ( sadly dont know number of mp34, but still its rare gun of course ). So we can say approximately that germans had 4 times less number of SMGs. In ro2 they have same popularity.
3) mkb42(h) and AVT-40. Well, its discussed many times and everybody knows what why and how is it. I ll just write short info:
About 8000 MKB42(h) was produced and this is really microscopic number.
MkB42(h) wasnt in Stalingrad because:
a) production was started in november 1942, exactly in that moment german forces in Stalingrad got in siege
b) first oficial mkb42 use was in 1943.
So its totally wrong that it appears in Stalingrad even for every 30th german soilder ( on some servers even more often ).
AVT-40 is copypaste of SVT with only difference that it had A letter on the bash and full auto mode. Production was started, if i remember good, at spring/summer 1942. It had all chanced to get in Stalingrad. Very sad but i didnt find any info about number produced. AVT-40 had analog - older AVS-36, about 30-60K was produced before the war. 1 photo of AVS in Stalingrad exists. I personally think that AVT isnt bad untill its only 1 per team. And of course without scope :D .
Conclusion: MKB was not in Stalingrad and its wrong that MKB exists on Stalingrad maps. MKB was so rare weapon that for observing historical accuracy you also have to research in which battles it was used, putting it in maps just by looking at date or year ( how probably TWI did, mkb42=1942, stalingrad 42-43 ) would be wrong. AVT had all chances to be in Stalingrad, but of course as rare weapon. Also its analog AVS was here.
4) PTRS vs PTRS
well, its more question about basic logic than historical accuracy...
How it was in real life:
germans produced about 40000 pzb39 before Stalingrad battle and finished production. Modificating into grb39 was started after novermber 1942.
Germans also had GLs on mauser 98k rifles and kampfpistole. Both things were using AT HEAT grenades.
USSR producted about 400 ( if i remember good ) PTRD in 1941, 400-2000 pzb39 ( copypaste ) in 1941, small unknown number of Sholohov ATR in 1941 that was used in Moscow defence ( mauser t gewher copypaste with 12.7mm ammo and muzzle break ), about 190 000 PTRD and 60 000 PTRS in 1942. we are interested only in 2 last numbers. There was 2 main AT ammo for PTRS/D - B32 with about 35 mm/100 m penetration and BS-41 40-45mm/100m. I give those penetration numbers as VERY APPROXIMATE because i have never seen exact info but many unexact. BS-41 ammo had tungsten core.
What do we see in game? 1) there is only PTRS in game 2) both sides have PTRS 3) germans have PTRS with better BS-41 round ( in code german PTRS has penetration 55mm, may be its even more powerful than bs41 ), russians have PTRS with worse b32 round.
First is not really good because there was many other much more popular AT rifles/GLs.
Second just brakes all historically accuracy and logic of the game. Historically accuracy because giving to germans new for stalingrad time PTRS in same numbers as russians have is wrong for 100%. game logic - because in " realism" you can get captured weapon only by getting high lvl, in Classic nobody get captured things at all. Third makes situation even more unlogical and historically inaccurate.
The only reasons why ATRs situation in game looks like this are: balance, no time for making other ATRs/GLs, and giving possibility to germans to shoot russian T34s with same result as russians shoot pz4s. There is some questions: 1] if TW made it for making germans shoot t34s, what TW did plann to do when other vehicles will come? untill game has only 2 tanks it looks normal - germans shoot t34s same as russians shoot pz4s. But when game will get transporters, light tanks? germans will get ultimate armor destroyer for absolutely no reason. It will brake historical accuracy 3th time and totally disbalance the game.2] if it is done for balance, why didnt TW make Gls for germans? they also have good penetration with big HEAT nades and i can perfectly balance russian good ATRs. With kampfpistole and mauser98k GL game could become balanced and much more historically accurate, but instead of this there is captured PTRS in same number for germans with better ammo.
Conclusion: The ATR situation in game is wrong by historical accuracy from the beginning to the end, this " balance " will crash when game will get light armor.
5) HHL3 and RPG40.
First of all, those 2 things have same damage and they affect on tanks totally wrong way. Any tank gets destroyed after 2 ATnade hits in ANY place. its very wrong and its discussed many times so everybody know it. In other aspects I have questions only about HHl3. So,
1] HHL3 production was started in novermber 1942 ( if iremember good ) and about 9000 was produced to the end of 1942. My friend historical enthusiast says that germans didnt use it some time. So, HHL3 appearing on Stalingrad maps as RPG40 analog in same numbers is historically wrong.
2] it has totally wrong method of usage. IRL it was magnetic mine, soilder had to place it on the tank without throwing and pull the 7.5 seconds fuse. Then mine penetrate the armor and penetration was very good, much better than RPG40. In game it is 100% copypaste of RPG40 - it is throwen like grenade, blows at impact and makes same damage. So, the only 2 things are connecting HHL3 in game and in reality. Its a name ( even this is not perfect - in game its called " grenade") and how it looks like.
I have 1 question - WHY was it balanced THAT way? really, captured RPG40 for germans would be even better. I know that germans had much worse ATRs and they didnt have impact AT nades like russian rpg40, but it doesnt mean that all historical accuracy must be broken. And if german AT weapons are balanced so historically inaccurate, why you didnt balance german mg34 with hight fire speed, Why did you add historically inaccurate mkb42 that BRAKES balance? The ATR problem could be solved the way i already described, the AT nade can be solved very easilly by adding grenade packs and AT bottles. Both were used by both sides. Germans had gebalt ladung x7, russians were using often x3-x5 RGD33 packs ( germans have even better nade pack! ), russians were using #1/#3 bottles, and very effective KS bottles; germans were using bottles with mixture from flamethower. Both sides probably used surrogate molotovs. with all this stuff RPG40 for russians wouldnt look so disbalancing.
part2 i will write tomorrow.
i've heard that disbalance of RS is its " special feature " and its very good because japans and americans had absolutely different weapons.
Well its good for RS of course, but i dont understand why RO2 didnt get same thing. Germans and russians werent as different in weapons as americans and japans, but there was some difference anyway.
I'll write here 2 parts. 1 - about classic mode roles/weapons. 2 - about unlocks.
part1
1)G41 and SVT. They are balanced for 100% by popularity that is wrong absolutely. IRL the Germany produced about 145 000 G41s untill new G43; USSR produced 1,6 million SVT-40, over 1 million of them - before 22th june. So, on the Stalingrad battle time there was over 10 times more SVT than G41.
Same thing about scoped variants. There was about 50 000 scoped SVTs; sadly no information about scoped G41s ( number ). But its very obvious that scoped G41s were much more rare than scoped SVTs just because there was 11 times more SVT than G41 ( all variants ). Also i have never seen any photo of german sniper with scoped G41 ( but i ve seen several photos of german/finnish snipers with captured scoped SVT and even (!!!) scoped AVS-36) i am not talking about photo of this thing in Stalingrad. In RO2 "realism" mode scoped g41/svt are same unlocks for german/russian roles. In classic mode its even worse - ALL SNIPERS CAN GET SEMI AUTO. Its bad even for russians because scoped SVT was much more rare than mosin, for germans its just... well, describe by yourself the fact that every german sniper in Stalingrad battle can take scoped G41 with scope made in 1944.
2)MP-40 and PPSh-41. By different sources Germany produced about 1-2 mln mp40; USSR produced over 6 million PPSh for all the war. Both weapons' production was growing by the time and started approximately at the same time with difference about 1 year. Another SMGs were much more rare for both sides - USSR had about 80 000 PPD-40 before the war + 40 000 PPD-40 produced in Leningrad during the war+ some unknown number of produced PPD in other places during the war, then old PPD34-48 that was even less popular.
Germans had about 8000 MP28, 10-20K emp35 and mp34 ( sadly dont know number of mp34, but still its rare gun of course ). So we can say approximately that germans had 4 times less number of SMGs. In ro2 they have same popularity.
3) mkb42(h) and AVT-40. Well, its discussed many times and everybody knows what why and how is it. I ll just write short info:
About 8000 MKB42(h) was produced and this is really microscopic number.
MkB42(h) wasnt in Stalingrad because:
a) production was started in november 1942, exactly in that moment german forces in Stalingrad got in siege
b) first oficial mkb42 use was in 1943.
So its totally wrong that it appears in Stalingrad even for every 30th german soilder ( on some servers even more often ).
AVT-40 is copypaste of SVT with only difference that it had A letter on the bash and full auto mode. Production was started, if i remember good, at spring/summer 1942. It had all chanced to get in Stalingrad. Very sad but i didnt find any info about number produced. AVT-40 had analog - older AVS-36, about 30-60K was produced before the war. 1 photo of AVS in Stalingrad exists. I personally think that AVT isnt bad untill its only 1 per team. And of course without scope :D .
Conclusion: MKB was not in Stalingrad and its wrong that MKB exists on Stalingrad maps. MKB was so rare weapon that for observing historical accuracy you also have to research in which battles it was used, putting it in maps just by looking at date or year ( how probably TWI did, mkb42=1942, stalingrad 42-43 ) would be wrong. AVT had all chances to be in Stalingrad, but of course as rare weapon. Also its analog AVS was here.
4) PTRS vs PTRS
well, its more question about basic logic than historical accuracy...
How it was in real life:
germans produced about 40000 pzb39 before Stalingrad battle and finished production. Modificating into grb39 was started after novermber 1942.
Germans also had GLs on mauser 98k rifles and kampfpistole. Both things were using AT HEAT grenades.
USSR producted about 400 ( if i remember good ) PTRD in 1941, 400-2000 pzb39 ( copypaste ) in 1941, small unknown number of Sholohov ATR in 1941 that was used in Moscow defence ( mauser t gewher copypaste with 12.7mm ammo and muzzle break ), about 190 000 PTRD and 60 000 PTRS in 1942. we are interested only in 2 last numbers. There was 2 main AT ammo for PTRS/D - B32 with about 35 mm/100 m penetration and BS-41 40-45mm/100m. I give those penetration numbers as VERY APPROXIMATE because i have never seen exact info but many unexact. BS-41 ammo had tungsten core.
What do we see in game? 1) there is only PTRS in game 2) both sides have PTRS 3) germans have PTRS with better BS-41 round ( in code german PTRS has penetration 55mm, may be its even more powerful than bs41 ), russians have PTRS with worse b32 round.
First is not really good because there was many other much more popular AT rifles/GLs.
Second just brakes all historically accuracy and logic of the game. Historically accuracy because giving to germans new for stalingrad time PTRS in same numbers as russians have is wrong for 100%. game logic - because in " realism" you can get captured weapon only by getting high lvl, in Classic nobody get captured things at all. Third makes situation even more unlogical and historically inaccurate.
The only reasons why ATRs situation in game looks like this are: balance, no time for making other ATRs/GLs, and giving possibility to germans to shoot russian T34s with same result as russians shoot pz4s. There is some questions: 1] if TW made it for making germans shoot t34s, what TW did plann to do when other vehicles will come? untill game has only 2 tanks it looks normal - germans shoot t34s same as russians shoot pz4s. But when game will get transporters, light tanks? germans will get ultimate armor destroyer for absolutely no reason. It will brake historical accuracy 3th time and totally disbalance the game.2] if it is done for balance, why didnt TW make Gls for germans? they also have good penetration with big HEAT nades and i can perfectly balance russian good ATRs. With kampfpistole and mauser98k GL game could become balanced and much more historically accurate, but instead of this there is captured PTRS in same number for germans with better ammo.
Conclusion: The ATR situation in game is wrong by historical accuracy from the beginning to the end, this " balance " will crash when game will get light armor.
5) HHL3 and RPG40.
First of all, those 2 things have same damage and they affect on tanks totally wrong way. Any tank gets destroyed after 2 ATnade hits in ANY place. its very wrong and its discussed many times so everybody know it. In other aspects I have questions only about HHl3. So,
1] HHL3 production was started in novermber 1942 ( if iremember good ) and about 9000 was produced to the end of 1942. My friend historical enthusiast says that germans didnt use it some time. So, HHL3 appearing on Stalingrad maps as RPG40 analog in same numbers is historically wrong.
2] it has totally wrong method of usage. IRL it was magnetic mine, soilder had to place it on the tank without throwing and pull the 7.5 seconds fuse. Then mine penetrate the armor and penetration was very good, much better than RPG40. In game it is 100% copypaste of RPG40 - it is throwen like grenade, blows at impact and makes same damage. So, the only 2 things are connecting HHL3 in game and in reality. Its a name ( even this is not perfect - in game its called " grenade") and how it looks like.
I have 1 question - WHY was it balanced THAT way? really, captured RPG40 for germans would be even better. I know that germans had much worse ATRs and they didnt have impact AT nades like russian rpg40, but it doesnt mean that all historical accuracy must be broken. And if german AT weapons are balanced so historically inaccurate, why you didnt balance german mg34 with hight fire speed, Why did you add historically inaccurate mkb42 that BRAKES balance? The ATR problem could be solved the way i already described, the AT nade can be solved very easilly by adding grenade packs and AT bottles. Both were used by both sides. Germans had gebalt ladung x7, russians were using often x3-x5 RGD33 packs ( germans have even better nade pack! ), russians were using #1/#3 bottles, and very effective KS bottles; germans were using bottles with mixture from flamethower. Both sides probably used surrogate molotovs. with all this stuff RPG40 for russians wouldnt look so disbalancing.
part2 i will write tomorrow.
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